Episode notes
Transcript
Download .txt763 timestamped passages
What's up, what's up, what's up? Good morning, good evening, good night, good afternoon, whatever time you're listening in.
Appreciate you listening into this following bonus content, which is a little bit different from our normal success learned from failure.
It's a conversation that I had with professionals that I respect and work with.
And it just was a conversation on the phone that kept leading to saying, hey, you know, we need to document this.
All of us are professionals in design and some write.
The conversation is featuring James Aravena of Beekman Automation Group, doing window
automations for high-end houses out in the Hamptons and things like that.
It's featuring Lisa Marie Miesler, a commercial realtor out here in the Lehigh Valley.
And it's featuring her daughter, Jaden Lyon, who has an interior design degree and has
done the photography that's featured in the beginning of this episode.
We speak about how design moves the soul and how in many different mediums, people that don't even have to appreciate design can benefit from the fact that something was thought about.
We explore the multi-generational business of Beekman Automation that started with immigrating to the US and Frank built a business that grew into an international business.
we speak about how marketing and things just move to move people to action and we promote an event
which has been postponed this has been pre-recorded but it's for exodus road and preventing sex
trafficking here in the lehigh valley lisa's strength and love foundation is still accepting
donations through strength and love.org it's live you can donate to exodus road and we speak a bit
in this conversation. So it is along the lines of what my listenership would enjoy, although it is
slightly off theme. So we're going to call this a bonus episode in between our hiatus and we'll
return soon. Thank you for listening. What's up? What's up? What's up? Good morning. Good evening.
Good night. Tony Ortiz here with I Will Not Lose Podcast. And we're doing a little bit of bonus
content for you. I have some people in my network, really, really big heavy hitters, both in business,
both in design. So we have a few experts that are going to speak kind of about how design speaks to
the soul while it's important. And it's really just a conversation. We've had these conversations
over the phone and they go on for half an hour. We said, Hey, let's, let's put this together. So
we're going to go around and kind of introduce ourselves. Um, we are in the three West broad
building, beautiful downtown Bethlehem, um, have people joining us from New York. So this is good.
we'll start ladies first and go around this way all right so i'm jayden lion um i do photography
i do interior design i just recently got my degree in interior design um yeah i mean that's what i do
awesome awesome hi lisa measler i'm a commercial real estate agent in lehigh valley uh jayden's
my daughter. So that's, this is my, this is my greatest accomplishment so far. Her brother,
she's got a twin brother. I actually rep the building that we are in and we'll, we can discuss
that a little bit later on. And then you'll be introducing James, but James is one of my clients
as well. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for the short intro there, Lisa, but I'm James Arvena. I'm from
Brooklyn, New York, and we're in a whole bunch of different businesses, but we're doing a lot
of interior design work. Um, we have a company based out of Long Island where we make custom
furniture, window treatments, things like that. So, you know, we're, we're deep and dirty into
the, into the inner workings of design. And then, you know, like Lisa mentioned, we're in real
estate as well. Um, so yeah, let's go, let's get into it. There's plenty to talk about. So I'm
excited to be here. Thank you. Problem. And it's a family business, right? Correct. Yeah. Why don't
you go on that for a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you, uh, there's a big story that
goes along with it but uh so basically the family started it um about 70 years ago just literally a
garage upholstery shop fixing people's chairs you know for a buck or two here and there and uh you
know eventually grew and then frank the the owner of the company he basically took it over from his
father and really scaled it into something um really great that had really great connections
with interior designers and you know he really just did that by networking really you know going
to things like this doing podcasts hanging out with uh the right crowd you know going to interior
design events just being kind you know being nice um showing the good quality work and you know
growing it into you know um a great big company doing work you know all over the country now and
even uh you know nationwide and um worldwide so it's uh it's great family companies are great you
know, when, uh, when you stick with family, it turns out, um, you know, everyone gets involved.
You got, uh, you got the mom in there. She's sewing. She's, you know, she's 80 something
years old. She's in there sewing in the morning at six o'clock in the morning, you go there,
she's screaming at six o'clock in the morning, you know, then there's me, um, you know, helping
out with the window treatments and this and that. And it's just, it's really a beautiful thing.
Family businesses are, I think the most important thing that we have to keep alive in America
because that's where, you know, um, generational wealth comes number one. And also just the
experiences, the love of working in a business together is just, you know, nothing like that,
you know? Yeah. I'm sure there's ups and downs, but you know, the, like you said, it's a beautiful
thing. And to think less than 70 years. So one, not even two lifetimes ago, he built something
from the stuff. I like to say that they don't teach you in school, you know, um, as we spoke
with Lisa knows I've, we've been networking for over a decade at this point, seeing each other
around, have a lot of mutual friends. And in our conversations, Jade, and I said, look, this is,
this is key. It doesn't people hire who they know, like, and trust it. There's a lot of people with
a camera, but they're going to want you at the event, you know, and go from there. So that's
cool and the name of the business it's uh home interiors by anthony jeremyda and then my sector
of the business which is the motorized shades and kitchen cabinetry is the beekman group and we'll
put we'll put some tags or something yeah yeah yeah we'll be we'll have some time to drop this
now what i think is interesting is design itself it'll always be in demand like no matter what
generation, even in the future, no matter how minimalist we go, there'll be somebody in charge
of aesthetics. You walk into this room, for those that are watching in video, there's all sorts of
chartreuse and white chairs, plastic chairs. It's very modern and it has a clean feel. We're at a
nice white table with teal and chartreuse chairs and a big rainbow logo uh that's the first thing
i noticed so we got that in the shot i don't know lisa what is that yeah that's a power school logo
so a quick history of this building i rep this building and uh power school used to own the
building they occupied the majority of the building and then they sold it to larkin associates
it's, it was just prior to COVID. And, uh, as people started pulling away from the office
sector and doing more remote work, they didn't need to occupy the entire building any longer.
So we start taking space back and leasing the space out, uh, redeveloping the building in some
sense with, with the space, because it was all office space. And I actually decided to redevelop
the front portion of it on broad street to make that all retail space. And, um, so Larkin had
actually come in i was just i just took james on a little tour when he got here when you first
walked into the building before like before they renovated it it looked like you're walking onto
a brady bunch that i tell people because it's very 70s it was bright orange and it was like
these ugly escalators and those in the center section there and there were the walls yeah where
the cafe is out there where it's like all glass walls now that was an open-air deli it was it was
pretty funky it was fun um how long ago was that i mean it was it was pre-covid it was kind of like
during covid that they were renovating so it took covid kind of they were the renovations would not
have taken as long it took much longer than we expected so they renovated all the common area
space to make it more of a class a space put the elevators in yeah and then as we take the space
back those spaces get renovated we're not really looking to put money into space that we don't know
what's going to go in there so funny quick story short uh long story short um so there's stake and
seals in the building i brought them down from jim thorpe area um prior to them going into that
space we didn't know what to do with it was its own private little office space it's over 5 000
square feet and it was old very old so we just didn't know what to do with it and it didn't
market. Well, it didn't look good. And I wanted to just let it go. I told my little, I'm like,
oh, just let it go. Let's see what we're putting in there. Without my knowledge,
he decided to renovate the whole space into a class a office space. So they were almost finished
with it when he called and told me that. I said, why are you doing that? I don't know what's going
to go in there. He's like, it's cool. It's cool. As soon as it's done, you can go in and take great
pictures. Like it's going to be great. It's going to be great. I said, okay. So a hot minute after
they finished doing that i called him i said so i have this restaurant group that really likes that
space can i show it to them and he kind of giggled and he said uh you know what go ahead and show it
because he said like what are your thoughts on this i said i think it'd be great it'll be great
for the building it'll be a really good draw so i showed it to him and they loved it they decided
to take it and and rob was just like hand on head my guys are going to kill me because now they had
rip everything out yeah yeah yeah so i mean but it's better to do that than not have it sold i
guess well you know it's a great space the restaurant does great my daughter works there
my son worked there as well when he was still home before he ran away to college yeah so yeah i mean
it's a really great space it's a great restaurant they do very very good business and it has been a
really good draw to the building so it's one of the best decisions i made for this building
that's excellent do you remember style the hair salon i'm going to tie this back to uh interior
design so it was a hair salon in this main i had heard about it but i'm not that familiar with the
building prior to me repping it right right i didn't think you were repping it back then
they were one of my clients we did some advertising and although it was a hair salon
it was a hangout it was a lounge it's a beautiful space that's where yeah the um the gsa's in there
now it's a beautiful space. And they had a big giant mirror. She told me it was thousands of
dollars just to ship, just to get the one big mirror there, but you could get your hair done
or whatever. I didn't get skin things. I just hung out to research for the market, but it just ties
back to how important if somebody is going to spend thousands of dollars to ship a mirror.
And now 10 years later, we're talking about it.
And I remember that white mirror.
The target market is not somebody who just wants a chair.
Like you can put four stands together and a plank and make a stool or a chair.
But to have these ones that have a groove, look separate, have some color to it, you know, it really speaks to the human soul and what we like, what makes us feel good.
Absolutely.
Yeah. Just adding to that. I mean, you could, you could build million dollar houses. You could
build $5 million houses. If it's not properly designed at the end and you're not putting in
the right finishings, it could really destroy the value. No matter if you put, you know,
$13 sheet rock, or you put, you know, the $30 new sheet rock they're coming out with.
If you don't put the right finishes in, it kills it because like you said, you know, the,
the human mind is all about the soul, the feel, you know, you're, you remember about that mirror.
people remember about a piece of furniture that's been in their history for generations.
I'm sure you guys have family members, um, where the deck, there's that one couch,
they don't want to throw it out. It's been like a hundred years. There's probably,
there's probably like big dents in them from people sending them over time, but
they don't want to throw them out. You know, furniture is kind of that one thing
that, uh, that hits home for a lot of people, you know, reminds them of home.
Um, and you know, getting a good quality piece, you know, especially something custom,
you're going to be paying for it. But, um, in the long run, you know, that will last you
a hundred years, you know, 150 years, even, um, you know, not like something you get on Wayfair,
right. That'll, you know, it'll be gone in two years. You know, someone sits on it the wrong way.
Um, it was actually, uh, I had an old bed. It was from Wayfair, I think. And I just jumped on it
one day and the whole thing just split in half. So I was like, all right, nevermind. We're just
going to, we're just going to build it out of, out of actual wood and not, uh, you know, for Mike or
whatever but it's funny you know it's like uh it's incredible because these pieces like you
know they'll last a long time we've had chairs come in from 1850 like we're talking like years
ago gosh and we like refurbished them and the wood it's like it's there's no joint it's a solid
structure like somebody made things so much different back then including houses seriously
out of a piece of wood it's like the amount of hours you could spend in there you could just
imagine hours and hours and hours and the piece holds value i mean that you know some of these
things are worth thousands and thousands of dollars just because it has history behind it.
It has love and craftsmanship behind it. I think that's what, uh, and it's scarce, right? You know,
that goes back to even like finding craftsmen, you know, it's, it's tough. People don't, you know,
people don't get into those trades anymore. I think you mentioned that before. Um, you know,
there's not that many people going into things like that anymore. A lot of people, you know,
want the, uh, you know, the business life going into, you know, working in an office and things
like that less people are going into uh you know very unique craftsman jobs um that's mainly because
a lot of business has gone overseas a lot everyone gets stuff from china now that's just the way it
is but we're really trying to make our mark as an american brand you know stuff made in america
that lasts um and i think that's really the main thing i mean we should we should all try and buy
um you know from family businesses from local businesses highly agree you know get things that
are, uh, you're helping out your community, you know, you're getting quality stuff and
you know, the name and you know, the people that, that, uh, that made the things that,
you know, you use every single day.
So, um, and hope your kids will appreciate it.
You know, usually once you're gone, they appreciate it more, but I think for the people
listening that don't understand design and just say, yeah, I go to a nice space.
So when you go to a nice restaurant, just a couple of ways design can affect.
I mean, like if you go to your driving, you're traveling, you pull over on a highway, you see a diner, there's leather bound menus, a big fish tank with colorful sick lids.
You're like, I don't even know if I'm trying to get a $10 meal.
This probably isn't the place.
Now, they could have the cheap price, but it changes your whole aesthetic, whether you appreciate it or know the science or like Jaden have a degree in it.
Yes, you can get a degree.
there's more to it than just picking colors and moving stuff around like there's a whole psychology
um or you don't have to know that to appreciate it it's like good music you don't have to know
how to make it go on some of that like did you the stuff you learned in school is not new like
yeah like it's so funny because a lot of people always say like oh why do you get that like why
are you getting a degree in interior design like so many people question me on that because they
don't think it's something that like you should go to school for i guess um but you kind of like
you learn like the history you learn a lot of history um of interior design and architecture
i took a lot of architecture classes because you need to understand how everything works and how
everything's put together um to then think about the design and you'd have to learn about like
all the like so you need to know like fire codes and like all that stuff if you're doing a commercial
design I didn't even think of that you have to learn about a lot of stuff which I didn't really
like go into detail of learning that stuff they just told us a little bit and told us that we're
gonna eventually have to know that yeah that picks up over time like you know you walk in a place
you'll you'll figure it out yeah so you have to think about a lot more than people think like
just oh I want to pick a color for that wall and this chair and that's it like you're learning a
lot more um and then like I did a lot of residential work for like my classes um so we did the kitchens
bathrooms stuff like that and another thing you have to really like learn about and think about
is just like the flow of your design so when you're like thinking about a kitchen how it's
going to function and think about oh if you're going to put the stove here you need it close to
the sink but you also need the fridge nearby because they're going to be working in those
areas you know in the kitchen it's all like you think about a lot of stuff that normally you
wouldn't think about for interior design you know interior designers are not just color pickers too
i mean there's you know inter designers take measurements into using scale project managers
i mean realistically the client hired the interior designer right and if the contractor is not doing
the right work or they make a mistake or something's not right something was measured wrong
the client goes back to the interior designer because they're the one like it's weird you're
not just picking colors you're coordinating the entire project you're making sure things get to
where it needs to go you're ordering stuff you know you're picking the tile you're making sure
the tile comes on time this and that um it's much tougher than than a lot of people seem i think the
people at home um maybe that's something they could pick up today interior design is is uh
much harder than it seems you know especially when uh you know most interior designers they
like going back to the same people like the interior designers that we work with for example
like those are our biggest clients that we have 30 interior designers 40 interior designers that
that you know we pick up work from every year because they come back to us they know
that we understand their process and then we can just coordinate much faster and they can have a
you know an easier time dealing with the client and picking the and then we'll just let it you
know like the client doesn't care about the measurements or what wood you're putting in
they just want to know, you know, what color is the fabric, you know, what does the design look
like? And then I just, I just want it. Most of these people don't have time to, you know,
dilly dally around with contracting experts for that. Exactly. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting
because I mean, I, I work mainly in commercial real estate recently for some reason after like,
I haven't had a residential sale in seven years. Uh, I've been doing a little bit this week and,
um, under agreement with two houses, which is strange, but it's funny because, you know, um,
I think that most people can understand that when you walk into a house, like if you're looking for
houses, right. Two main things you're looking at bathrooms and kitchens, because that's the
most expensive thing to do. If it's not something that you like, it doesn't work for you or if it's
really outdated. So, and it, and it does make a difference. And then like, even in your commercial
space and we'll take this building for example the amount of work that went into that space
where steak and steel is you know that's a million dollar fit out of course people don't think
they're like oh my gosh a million dollars to you know you're renting a space but yeah it's a
restaurant it's there's a lot that goes restaurants are very expensive a lot that goes into a restaurant
and you know it's got there's so many things that they have to consider and right down to like the
acoustics i was in a restaurant the other day and i turned to my friend i'm like the acoustics are
terrible here let's leave because we're screaming at each other yeah i don't want to be in a
restaurant screaming at my friend that's sitting next to me you know or the charcuterie shop that's
on the front of the building here you know that was all old office space it was all tiny little
rooms we had to you know everything had to be demoed and just taken down to a vanilla box and
then they had to design it so it it goes it just goes deeper than most people think it does and
People have a vision of this is what I want it to look like.
They have no idea how to get there.
No, no.
So, you know, like my charcuterie board place, she had a, she had a color scheme.
She had like a country theme.
This is, you know, she was going on the internet and showing us pictures.
This is kind of what I'm thinking.
Pinterest and stuff.
Yeah.
No, definitely.
I mean, when people hire me as an expert to design or walk, it's like people look at that P right there and it's like, okay, it's a P.
it's also a single point so for that logo the pen never leaves the paper when you trace it
when you go to engrave that or even put that on a piece of vinyl they cut that out of one
piece of vinyl nobody thinks the little decision you make of disconnecting the piece
you know i'm working on a car emblem right now and we said oh man if it's going to mount as a
single piece there can't it has to connect otherwise you're mounting four pieces but the
beauty of it is when somebody walks into a room your brain subconsciously knows whether or not
you feel safe like it knows about panels in here a whole architect engineer like had to think how
is this building going to last for 100 200 years like how can it not fall and i love that as the
you know, I keep going back to the human experience, but you trust somebody with something
like your home, your logo, a commercial property, interior design, even photography, the photography
that you do, you can't mess it up. So there's photographing just small events and stuff. But,
you know, if you have a wedding, like, like when a royalty gets married, it's not like they just
go to craigslist or you know figure somebody out and go for the cheapest bidder like you need to
have dealt with that pressure and you just keep moving up and up do you think your grandfather
i think you said frank uh our great-grandfather do you think he was like was he just a craftsman
yeah guys immigrated right yeah they're uh so uh frank and his father anthony jeremy they're um
they're both born in Italy in Sicily and, uh, they came here with, with nothing basically.
And, you know, they, they had a little business in, in, in Sicily. And then, you know, once they
got on the boat and came over here, um, they just basically continue doing it. And, uh, my parents,
the same thing. I mean, that's, uh, that's, that's the beauty of, you know, coming here
to America and being able to take the opportunity that's in front of you with all these different,
um, choices. I mean, you, you come here, the interior design world is, is huge just because
there's, there's so many spaces being built, but I mean, just, just cutting back, um, I guess about
my family. So, I mean, my parents are immigrants too. They came here in the nineties, um, with
nothing, basically my parents came with, uh, they, they, they met here actually. So they came
separately, but they both basically came here for a better life, you know? Um, and they came here
and with nothing and worked extremely, extremely hard. And that's, you know, that's kind of where
my motivation comes from into, you know, building businesses up and, and, and, you know, doing things
like this and, and trying to make more friends and network is just cause I see the way my parents
worked, um, you know, without the language in the back of their pocket, you know, without the
connections in the back of the pocket. Um, thank God now I have so many connections through my
family, um, through friends and stuff like that. But my parents came here, they had nothing,
you know, they, they didn't even know where to start. And, uh, fortunately they worked hard and
built themselves up and, you know, it's just, I don't know, I guess, uh, not sure how that
relates to interior design, but, but no, because you have to care about it. Exactly. It's the start
of the, like I was going back to before, like family business, like, you know, um, I guess,
you know, there's always a good industry with construction because construction interior
designer, you know, one in, um, one in one most of the time, because there's, there's always work
to be done. Um, you know, even what you mentioned before with, with restaurants, you know, the
million dollars to renovate a restaurant, that's, you know, that's not off the ball at all. That's
very, um, true in most cases. And, um, you know, you got to look at a restaurant, not only at its
food, but like you said, you want to feel safe when you come into the space, you know, when you
go, you can get sushi at Nobu and then you can get sushi at, you know, just your local shop in town.
And you might be getting served the exact same fish from the same distributor, but what are you
getting different you're getting a different service you're getting a different feel you sit
on the chair it's nice you know the tables are nice they're not wobbling over um you got beautiful
lighting some there's beautiful displays that they put in restaurants um and you know that's
what attracts the customer that's how you pay you know maybe two or three times the price that you
would somewhere else um yeah there's some restaurants in the valley that um definitely
are a step above the rest as far as like the ambience and where you are right and it brings
in a different group of people and and it's um you hear people talking about it you know they're
like oh have you been to such and such place it's so beautiful i love hanging out there because it
feels good when when something's new people are going to flock to it regardless but i had the
i won't name them because they're not in business now but i did branding for a high-end restaurant
out here and, um, everything from, you know, when we were doing our market research and showing up
there and hanging out and meeting the staff, there was like foie gras. Like I, I never had that.
That's just not, I didn't know how to pronounce it. I didn't know what it was. And they just bring
out multiple slabs of it. And after we take the pictures, they're like, eat it. And I'm like,
okay i get it i see why every week or every month you re-pull all your taps because you don't want
mold in the lines affecting the taste like obviously taste is big in restaurants but
the leds and the lights that he did to be able to fade and everything was not cheap you know and
even when you get into lighting it's like well what's the difference between the $800 one and the
hundred twenty dollar one or something you know right but i think it's amazing to go down the
deep holes you know this was not specifically about interior design i think it's good you know
we touched on networking and things like that um and just meeting people that care when you
get to i want to say it's a snooty thing like you when you have access to good food you don't
want McDonald's. Like you, people want better things. And even when you get into taste, you
have, I was talking to somebody, he said, I want to go around the world and taste things. I said,
you'd have sommelier training. And he didn't know what that was. And I'm like, yeah, you know,
level five, you're pretty much tasting for the King. Like we've trusted experts in telling us
what food is good what's not from an objective you know this is from this region it's good at
this time and it's just nuts how deep um i don't know if you guys are like me but some days i'll
just sit there and i'm thinking like so this is right up my alley now it's like just how deep it
goes like uh my background is in bartending not so much cooking but bartending taught me to cook
because it's flavors that go together like like yes taste is extremely subjective and what tastes
good to some is based on your culture and all sorts of stuff but whoever came up with peanut
butter and jelly I don't know if it's the chemistry or the psychology but they you know like certain
foods just work well so you do like uh more on the higher end but if you would do like a apple
ginger or like a peach apricot or do something where you're mixing things like creme brulee is
a great example where you take some skill to torch it and somebody went down the rabbit hole said
this is how we're going to make and do this and there's probably somebody who like you know
somebody's mom can make phenomenal food and you love it but she doesn't plate it and present it
like they will in michelin stars you know there's a reason they could give you small portions i eat
dinner every day on a paper plate oh my god i was just gonna go to the paper plate then because i
was i there was um some facebook group that i'm in and people sometimes will be like hey this is
what i'm having for dinner tonight and um inevitably it's on a paper plate and it looks horrendous
right and i just said and i i'm looking at going why why are you doing that so even at home and
jayden can attest this especially when her brother's around because he's a big cook
everything needs to be plated properly and it just it looks beautiful you know we play everything
we present it and then we sit down and we and we enjoy it i think i think i enjoy it more because
it is aesthetically pleasing right you know if it looks good you like want to eat it more
instead of just throwing it on a paper plate james exactly even just even just giving a oh
man i'm even worse i'll do peanut butter and jellies on a paper towel if i'm like if i'm
really really crushing like if i'm like okay the only reason i'm eating is because my brain's using
a lot of protein because i'm designing i don't want to stop all right at least it's paper towel
i eat over the sink sometimes my mom doesn't even sit down when she eats like i'll be sitting at the
table like mom come sit down she's like no i gotta wash the dishes first and i'm like come on
i'm like i'm almost done eating and then she's just sitting there eating while she's doing the
dishes and cleaning and this and that i'm like i don't know my mom's crazy she's always running
around yeah she never sits down i don't know why but even just like serving that napkin underneath
the knife and fork so that somebody doesn't have to get up or having the drink on the table with
empty cups so that you can pass it we use linens at home we don't use paper i i hate when i go
places and people bring out paper napkins and i just kind of look at it yeah i don't like going
to restaurants and there's and there's paper napkins that's the worst because you immediately
think like oh this restaurant's being cheap you know the food's probably cheap well you also need
10 of those because they're paper thin yeah right oh yeah no i can't i if i'm going to use a paper
napkin it has to be like a paper towel or something like that but i didn't think of getting linens
that'd be interesting i did uh like fine serving for a while and i always say it's great because
like without design, I said this before, am I going to die the most famous designer? I don't
maybe I'll have some play regionally, definitely not world, but I've tasted food. I wouldn't have
been able to taste. I have stories of a $10,000 to ship mirror. And you know, it's come up a
couple of times where I'm just able to tie the conversation back to a client where it's like,
and I may have said this to you when we first met, if you can get into accounting,
like right out of school or early, you're literally researching other businesses and
knowing what works. That's how I know I don't ever want to get into the restaurant industry.
Accounting is very important. Very, very important.
And it just, it gives you an idea. It lets you know, same with graphic design. You have to
research so many different businesses and services. And then you find out like,
just found out yesterday there's a company we lost a bit because they do very specific
types of contracting like it's like a chimney hvac company so they only deal with chimneys
and only a specific type of chimneys on there uh they do the the marketing for the contractors that
service that niche so it's like you'll see all these marketing companies that where they're
like we only do interior designers and you'd have to expect they have more
research and stuff there, but sometimes it's just a niche you get into,
you know?
What do you guys think about marketing companies in general?
I feel like there's a lot of mixed opinions about them.
Maybe that's a good thing that we could touch on. Yeah, I know.
And I know in our business,
our marketing is really word of mouth for the most part. I mean,
once you get, once you're, you know,
once you're doing work for a lot of these high rollers, you know,
things just get around people come back for other work you know we had one client they they're like
all right i want you guys to do this house today in the hamptons and then okay next year we're
going to do my my house in florida and then the year after we're going to do mine in london
i was like okay you know we'll do whatever you got to do but you don't have to market at that
point of course like it's just you know but marketing is definitely important for a lot
of aspects i mean real estate there's you know people doing cold calling and this and that i
guess that's a marketing is like one of the biggest uh benefits to real estate you have to
market it obviously you've got to market it the right way it's a whole other rabbit hole just like
every other profession we talked about and it's constantly changing you know um yeah i mean we
always had it so i've been with a couple different firms when i was i was with colliers international
they had an in-house marketing team which was really nice because anything i needed i just sent
them send it over to them yeah because they do all the oms and everything and we have to have
stuff like that in commercial um when i moved to another firm they were a little bit smaller
boutique firm uh they had just like so and so in the office down the hall can do that for you and
i looked i said that's not it's not good enough i need more than that and they hired a marketing
firm to come in and start you know like doing the commercial aspect of our stuff and then you know
they are working with other things with them as well is very beneficial.
Well, you can have a small in-house team. That's typically where I position myself to be a 1099
on a few teams. So I've seen how a lot of different marketing companies do it. And unless you have,
I'd say 40 to 50 specialists in different areas, you can't do all of marketing.
My specialty for one of my contracts is Google ads. And I'll tie this back to how everything's
changing. Five, six years ago, maybe even 10, 88% of searches all through the internet were
through Google. What do you think that number's at now? I'm sure it's much higher. 99%, almost
everything. Way less. They lost a ton of market share. Really? Yeah, because this counts Facebook
searches, Instagram, TikTok, Bing, like all internet searches. People used to only go to
google even chat gpt took a ton of them right they hold about 18 percent and they're 18 percent wow
wow that's interesting that's how crazy it dropped wow and people still spend a ton of money on
google ads but think about it if chat gpt gives you the right answer crazy crazy expensive you
can spend a thousand dollars in a week and get zero hits out of it if you know if you're not
doing it the right way more than that way more than that no you're right and that's something
I specialize in, why I say it's important is, um, I've worked on accounts where they make 1300%
return on every dollar they, they, I'm sorry, 13 times. So yeah, 1300% on their investment.
Um, and they've scaled up to the point where they're putting, you know, a lot of money into it.
Now, a lot of their traffic brand awareness, and they're big enough that other people are bidding
on their name. That's something you don't think about. It's legal to use their headline, but you
can bid on a competitor's name. And if you bid higher, you'll show up above whatever it is.
But is that going to be the case in five years if they don't have as much search,
if people trust Google less? So as soon as you have a channel that's working
in marketing, you really have to jump on it as you go. If you have word of mouth and you're good,
putting something where you can showcase that expertise so you maybe have a website that
doesn't sell so much it shows all the press and stuff you do and then there's public relations
but it's uh it's hit or miss and a lot of agencies and this goes with anything there's a lot of great
agencies small team they're at a position they could focus in on your thing for six months to
two years then there's agencies where they hired a bunch of people to get the job done now the big
job's over and they're not giving the proper attention to each client like there's a market
advantage to somebody going with tony ortiz the designer versus an agency if they want that
control and my availability yeah a little more of a personal touch than like the larger company
Yeah, no, I hear you with that because the one marketing firm that we had hired at my one brokerage firm, we clearly were not the only client that they had.
So it was a huge difference from when I had an in-house marketing team to hiring one because sometimes I was like two weeks out going, where is my OM?
I listed this property two weeks ago.
I need my marketing material.
Like, oh, we're backed up.
Great.
But you have, you know, you start to do your job.
I don't care if you're up till midnight.
Sorry.
Like, especially with real estate, like it's, the timing is of the essence.
And I've never told anyone, you're not my only client.
Yeah, I get that a lot with the marketing firms.
I may throw a little thing in where I'll say, hey, I have the other line.
I'll call them back.
What'd you have to say?
And people are usually like, oh, I get it.
And then, you know, second time in the conversation, I'm like, look, you know, I want to talk, but let's push something.
I mean, even for friends, when we have our conversations, they're usually, well, let's try tomorrow and it might take two, three days just to get to a 10 minute phone call.
But I enjoy the conversation. I enjoy this. I mean, having this is why I get into it.
This is a love. Do I want to pass podcasting down to my son? I don't know.
If he shows some interest, I'll show him the ropes. But for the most part, he wants to carve his own path out.
and I'm okay with that. He's like, uh, like I did music. He does music. He wants to take it
further with singing. Whereas I didn't, um, he's wildly talented and he knows it, but I think he
has a couple of years until he's like, oh man, there's a lot of talented people. I tell him now,
like when you're 15, 16, spend the time that you have to do the thing you love. It may not
make a ton of money you know but I feel like even if it doesn't work out you know at least you got
to do it you could say you did it you know I don't feel like people go into design for money
I feel like we've I mean if you think of the number the percentage of artists that are like
at the top I mean there's digital artists now there's I don't know I'm not in the fine art
world i know there's still money in it but nobody aspires to be nobody says you know i love
engineering but i'm going to be a fine artist because there's money and one day i'm going to
have my stuff for 1500 years on someone's wall like pure luck it's all the planets have to align
i mean i i'm an artist i sold my art in the past most of my stuff was commissioned but it's not
and all my friends like oh why don't you do it again because i don't have time because i'm paying
bills right now for sure i would love to i've got i've have three canvases in my house that
have been sitting there for five years you know and i just don't have the time to do it so yeah
i mean it's literally got to be a hit you know there's got to just you look at some art on the
walls and you just shake your head and you wonder why that's worth ten thousand dollars oh it's
ridiculous yeah and you know you can do right so i've looked at some stuff going oh my my work's
better than that and i've made thousands of dollars but i didn't sell my ten thousand dollar
piece you know it's it's the same thing with like jayden's photography she has some amazing pieces
but you know it's got to be like the right person at the right time that sees it yeah the the
kendrick halftime and i usually don't go on current events at all oh my gosh the shot for um
somebody got a shot it was a great shot was it the best concert shot i've ever seen no definitely
not. Even there were some things with the coloring where I was like, okay. But the person picked up a
camera because they liked Kendrick Lamar and said one day they would photograph him. So now the
picture comes with a story where this was the precipice of their whole career. And I'm like,
okay. So I don't know, it went viral and everyone's like, well, I want to buy a print.
Maybe you kind of can run an auction off for something that worked for you, but people don't
look at how many iterations things go for I mean you're pretty much engineering I mean when you
are doing custom pieces I'm sure you don't just draw it up and build it and it's perfect I don't
know I mean what is that like or even like installing window vinyls like you I don't know
what kind of mistakes you can run into but I just have to imagine things go through conversations
iterations you have to recut it you have to you know yeah i mean the there's definitely mistakes
but we honestly we actually do mostly hand drawings um for the most part just because
everyone's old school you know we got old guys that still work um and come to the office every
day and and we just go from drawing we build and what we try and do to prevent mistakes like that
as you know in any business you learn how to avoid mistakes over time is we'll have the designer come
you know to the shop one of the days we even have the client come sometimes and before we put the
final upholstery on before we put the fabric on um and definitely before we have it sent out we
make sure that it fits we double check everything we make sure the client likes the feel of it they
like the how it how it you know how how uh how their body compresses into a couch for example
and and if the the the foam is the right way there's like 30 different types of foams you
could use you know with different pour it like the the porosity and this and that it's like
there's so many different things but you know mistakes are inevitable it happens we've we've
had jobs where we sent the um we sent you know a banquette with the wrong color you know we put
the wrong fabric on we sent it out and it happens you know we get a call back um and they're like
you know you guys got the wrong color and you know and then there's there's two ways you could
go about that you could brush it off and say whatever you know you got we already got the
money like whatever or you you know you can go back you could fix it um which is what we did
you know we went back it cost us you know we lost profit there obviously you know we had to send our
guys we had to buy the fabric again we you know fabric is expensive too for sure um but what that
led to is them recommending us to somebody else and we made you know double the money that we did
at that point in time, just because we went back and we were the, you know, we wanted to stay,
you know, as a good business people, you know, people think about that stuff, just like
restaurants, people say the atmosphere is good, recommend to their buddy, you know, you go to the
restaurant. It's the same thing with, with any type of service business or, you know,
because I, it's something that I talk about with my colleagues often. Um, there's nothing worse
than someone that calls himself a professional and they cannot admit they made a mistake or,
or they can't admit that they don't know. I made my way in this business by people.
I didn't know anything near what I know now when I started clearly. And I had a lot of questions
coming at me when with clients, I wouldn't necessarily say, Oh, I have no clue. I'll get
back to you. I would say it in a more eloquent manner of, I will, I will get that answer for
you know we have to in my head going I've got no clue what they're even talking about sometimes I
had to look stuff up like what what does that mean and I just but you know I it was like fake
it till you make it kind of thing of course for sure but I never pretended that I knew and I never
gave them an answer just to make it sound good and even today you know if I make a mistake I made a
mistake on a contract yesterday you know and I saw it and I and I did I called them like hey I just
noticed i made this mistake you know we need to correct this the difference is even if let's say
you made a mistake or you didn't understand something i could just imagine what you did is
you went back and you learned it and you mastered it so the next time that question comes up it's
it's you know second to none you know that's the difference between somebody who doesn't care and
the difference between somebody who who might not might not be as knowledgeable but has that
ambition and that and that you know the passion for doing you know what it is and then you know
the next time that comes up, I gotta be real with you. I've been in commercial meetings that,
I mean, people are using acronyms and different things, you know, and they're all having this
conversation and I got my phone on their table, Googling, what does this mean in commercial
real estate so that I know what they're talking about. Yeah. And it's, it's fine. And again,
I have no problem. It's kind of like, if you have a doctor, right, you're having surgery for
something. If your doctor doesn't know, you don't want them to pretend they know and just kind of
do something that might look good. You want them, you know, you want a doctor that says, you know
what? I don't understand your symptoms. I don't know what's going on with you. Maybe we, maybe
you go talk to this specialist or, you know, give you ideas. And it's the same thing in any business.
And yeah, the good thing is too, when you know, a lot of people in business, if, if we can't do it,
somebody else we know can, you know, somebody came to us for, I don't know, an acrylic table.
we're not a plastic shop, but we, you know, we, we know plastic shop guy, you know, we bring them
business and it kind of just goes back and forth. You know, you don't want to, you know, the,
there's like that one tale that everyone tells, like, you know, don't, you know, you grab,
you grab all the business you could find and you're going to end up losing business because
you're not able to fulfill your requirements. Just like if, if Lisa says, um, if I tell Lisa,
you know, we have a house for sale and she's got 10 houses already for sale and, you know,
she might take it because, you know, um, you know, you want to take it, there's an extra house.
It's an opportunity, but if you can't deliver for the client, you know, I know Lisa's a
shock, by the way, for, for everyone listening, she's like the, she's the, she's like the
best real estate, you know, person around, she knows her way around everything and just
her personality or skills.
Great.
But you know, you, you, you, you, you want to look after the client.
That's what, you know, people will admire you for.
Cause you know, even with us, you know, when, when you represented us, um, you know, you're
there, you're on the ball, you're, you know, you're calling me every day.
You're calling me more than I'm calling you.
You know what I mean? You're, you're asking me questions, making sure everything's okay. Even, you know, you were, you were traveling and stuff. You were there, you know, texting me, um, emailing every day, just making sure you're on the ball. And that's just what it is. You know, you have to be there for the client really, you know?
Well, it's funny. And to your point, literally, as you and I are walking in this room, you're laughing at it.
I was doing a voice text to a potential client and it's an asset that just I don't have that.
I hate to say I don't have the time for it, but it's it was just something that I'm not going to be able to give him the attention on.
And I literally that's not you're laughing at me because I said I'm not the best person for this.
And, you know, I can't do you justice. However, but this is where you need to go.
like this is who you need to call because i'm i could totally take it and make a few bucks
but i know i know for a fact i'm not going to be able to do what he needs done right i do it all
the time and i do it back and forth with other yeah i mean a lot of not a lot but i've had logo
designs where somebody says just for whatever reason actually rachel's referred me logo you
know rachel we've uh you just you know where it is when someone doesn't feel threatened like you're
trying to take their trade secrets or do anything like this. People are like, okay, you have a
business, you have integrity and clients will wait too. Like that's one thing we lost out on.
Do you remember like if he said it was going to take seven to 10 days or even three months? I
mean, waiting lists were insane for custom crafted stuff, you know, six months out everybody. So
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the kitchens, the kitchens, like custom kitchens you're looking at, even the, even the, a big, big factory bigger than us, you're looking at six months, you know, if you're doing a full, full custom kitchen, you know, the client better not walk in, you know, right after the house is done asking for a kitchen, you know, it's not going to happen.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You brought her up.
I mean, she's done that.
I've seen her doing that a lot in her career.
Like since I've met her, if she, if she doesn't have the time for it.
Cause she's just so backed up with work.
She will be completely honest with you.
I mean, she even did it with my event, you know, and we'll get into talking about my
event as well.
But Jaden actually took over a lot of stuff that Rachel, um, originally wanted to do,
but then her business picked up and she, she just physically didn't have the time.
And she was, yeah.
So she called me and said, Hey, can Jaden pick this up for me?
Can she do this?
And you know what happens to you start off with, uh, let's say you, you, you pick up
a small job, you know, whether it's a small house or a small project or a small home, whatever,
you know, and then you potentially, and then you get a call the next day. All right, we have a
$5 million building for sale. And now you're like kind of in a tough spot because you, you know,
you could have gotten the bigger job. So it's always good to, you know, be grounded, I guess,
whenever you're speaking to somebody and, you know, tell them the truth.
Well that, and you know, you have to surround yourself with the right people, right? So kind
of like where Jaden was able to pick up the slack for Rachel. It's Rachel didn't just drop it and
say, I'm not doing this. Good luck. Go find somebody. Yeah. And that's kind of how I built
my career. I built my career with the right people around me. So I have, even if they're
not in my office, I have agents that I've worked with. I have residential agents that I work with
that if I don't have time to pick up that house, that one of my other, like, so clients like
yourself, you know, if you're going to move out here, you're going to call me and say, Hey, do
want to help me find a house. If I'm really swamped with larger projects, I'm going to find
you a really good residential agent. I'm not going to just say no. I hate when you call somebody. I'm
sure everyone has experiences. You call somebody for something and they're just so nasty on the
phone. It's just like, no, we can't help you. Or no, no. I'm not going to call you back after that.
Like, you know, it's just a simple thing. Like, no, I'm sorry. Like, you know, we'll try our
past this and at least say something like that and and you know you might get a call back but for me
when when people are nasty like that that's like a you know never talking to you again
this is like a total side story but off of that i was helping a buddy find a tire the other day
and he has a really rare tire so we're going to a bunch of places calling a bunch of places and
there are people that were like oh we don't have it that's it and then i had some people that are
like okay we don't have it but maybe if you go like down the street there's this place or maybe
if you call this place they might have it um they're like good luck like let us know if you
need anything like call back and some people like the one person told me they were going to call me
back and then they just never did and i was like okay i'm just waiting so i like the people that
are like okay we don't have it but we're going to give you somebody who might right because they're
not just like worried about their own business exactly exactly but lisa you do a lot of
philanthropy outside of commercial bossing. Yeah, I do. So what do you got, what are you working on
now? Okay. So this year, um, my S the it's the strength and love classic is the name of my
organization. And this year we're switching gears a little bit. I've partnered with the Exodus road
out of Colorado Springs. They're actually in five different countries and they are out there
helping prevent human trafficking. They also do search and rescue. They launched a, they recently
launched an education program called influenced so it's influenced with a d on the end.org is
the website for that and what i'm doing this year with my celebrity casino event is i'm raising
funds to physically bring their team to the valley to launch an education program here
get them into hopefully all of the school districts to educate the children educate the
parents and then also get in and as many hotels as i can the hotel group so they can educate
the staff there like what to look for what to do when you see it because i don't even think of that
well and what a lot of people don't realize is what a huge hub the lehigh valley is for human
trafficking uh mostly you know they bring them in on containers through new york we have all
our warehousing up and down i'm not saying they're all doing it but there are some doing it and i'm
hoping it's not my clients because i do that warehousing um they bring them in on containers
they're storing them here they're i i forget who told me but i was somebody was telling me that
they sell a lot of these people out in lancaster because it's even quieter in here but there's a
lot of uh people being kidnapped between here and up through up through the mountains you know up
through like wilkes-barre um hazelton scranton area but this is what's happening and this is why
i'm bringing them to the valley to educate on the grooming of some of these people will take
two three years to groom a child to get them to leave on their own accord and meet them and then
we never hear from them again um and it's pretty terrifying so and i've been fortunate enough to
meet a few women in the past month that were trafficked um and have been you know have
recovered from that and they have their own organizations as well and but they're you know
it takes it takes a village so we're all speaking about it and they're helping me do different
things with my event um very excited about it this year because i'm super excited to launch
this education program here if we can squash it in the valley as much as we can yeah yeah it will
squash a lot of it throughout the entire nation um and it's crazy to think that because it's the
high valley people just don't realize how bad it is here and even if it's just a pass-through it's
still a pass-through yeah if you can get awareness no that's that's great that's a it's a big battle
it's a huge battle i mean it's worth it so thank you for that information i had no idea besides our
calls off Mike, how much, because it's not out in the open. Well, no, it's not, it's not a drug
you can smell or people act different. It's like, and you constantly see, you know, missing children
or you're seeing on the digital boards, you know, watch for this car because they, we believe they
have this child and it's not always the stranger that you don't know. It could be your father,
your uncle you know my children and I know some some young girls yeah that were trafficked there's
a young girl that's trafficked by her father another one that was almost trafficked by her
father and it's you know it's it's terrifying when it's when you see it and it is in your backyard
I mean it's literally in your backyard nowadays you gotta even like you know my mom is like even
the people we know that we've lived next to for for years she always has that like second sense
that like, you never know when, when somebody, you know, goes nuts one day and tries to break
in and then there is that, you know, you really never know. No, it's terrifying. It's a very scary
thing. And so in my mind, you know, I've always, I think it's worse than it has been, you know,
years ago. Um, what do you think? I don't know if it's getting worse or if it's just
being talked about. I mean, it's similar to domestic abuse. Domestic abuse isn't getting
worse. People are just finally talking about it back in the eighties, the nineties, the early
2000s nobody talked about it because nobody wanted to do anything about it yeah you know i had a hard
time in court you know when my kids were little because there were no bruises there was no marks
socials again for that just so everybody at home you know can can hear it again while i'm at while
i'm away plug the socials plug the websites again everybody needs to follow these very important so
um and i and i'm going to do a shout out to james because james's company is not even local
and uh they came in they sponsored last year they were a pretty large sponsor and they drove
in from new york you know to be at my event yeah um and i'm sure they're gonna do it again
so that's amazing yeah it's it's strength and with the letter n strength and love.org is our
website uh we are currently out there looking for sponsors it's the most important thing right now
to have so that we can actually throw the event because i have i do have expenses that i have to
cover and um to be able to go out and get my celebrities are coming yet or not yet i mean we
will have several you know that were here last year my my actors my sopranos actors that were
here last year i've been talking to them just had a phone call with one with steve stanielis the
other day and he's very excited i liked him a lot yeah he's a great guy this is great he's a great
guy and he's very excited about this this year and he's got some exciting things happening this
year in his own career and people that he's working with. So that was, he, he commented on
that. He said, I'm really excited. I'm with the people I'm working with and I'm going to start
talking to see who else I can get to come out. So I don't really know, you know, who else I'll be
having. Uh, but it's, it's getting interesting with some of the conversations that are happening
and, and different celebrities that are actually hearing about it, which is funny to me. Um, it's
just interesting you know and some some larger celebrities that are trying that say we would
love to be part of this it's just always a matter of like are they filming are they able to go
because they're kind of like they want to go around their managers so they don't have to pay
them right now they'd rather volunteer their time of course and then jayden does all of our
photography and that's kind of one way i was helping her get started and and she just she
loves it so much so she's already bought cameras and lenses to kind of pursue her photography side
of it as well. I also add, because you just said the website, but there's also Instagram and
Facebook and LinkedIn, um, that we're trying to build that up. So you just look up strength and
love classic on either of those platforms. I'll be able to put them up in post. I'll be able to
do it for the people watching in for everybody listening in. Um, I don't think I attract
listeners that don't know how to spell strength or love, but S T R E N G T H N with the apostrophe
L O V E classic strength and love classic. So definitely check that out. So we just went over
an hour. If we want to start kind of landing the planes, anybody, anything you guys want to shout
out, you know, we can just piggyback off that. Oh man. Thanks. I appreciate it. I just, uh,
I'm glad I get to wake up another day and do what I love.
Right.
And even when I was talking about posting stuff to social,
it's not that I don't have the time,
but I'm afraid that I'm going to be in that position where somebody calls and
says, Hey, I want to, you know,
people want me to do this for their shows and I just get to do what I love and
not really think about too much else.
So I pray every night, like,
thank you for giving me the rabbit hole to learn.
you're gonna have a ton of fun with lenses and cameras and just the only tip i could say with
that is get what you need and be satisfied with the camera you have and remember that we have
beautiful photos from 10 20 years ago and they didn't have mirrorless cameras like yeah no i got
i got a used camera from somebody because my camera that i have is very slow and sad and you
can't even change the lens it's just one lens you know yeah yeah yeah no you want to get out of that
Yeah. So I got this one like camera body for like $200 from somebody and he used it for years. And I got a lens, like literally we were going to New York for the shoot for, I could take like behind the scenes shots of this one TV show and you can plug it. Go ahead. Gravesend. Oh, nice. Yeah. And it was really cool. But I got the camera. I didn't even have a lens for it on the drive there. We stopped at a target and I got a lens.
I was like okay this is my next purchase
I was calling Paulie going
we're going to just be a few minutes late
we just have to take a quick stop
I was like I can't say I'm not prepared and don't even have a camera lens
no of course not
of course now he's going to see this and he's going to giggle
it's okay
and then recently I just
bought another camera lens because that one's
like really zoomed in so I needed one for like
because I want to do real estate photography and all that
like a 5.5 or something
so any residential or commercial real estate
agents out there she's looking
into doing photography
it's jlion underscore
photography on instagram
and that's lion with a y
yes lion with a y
cool cool and that's all you have is the instagram
yeah I mean you don't want to give your facebook
or anything like that out if you have one
instagram's like the
big hit now for
instagram's like the big hit now for
you know all these like things like
that photography
it's all instagram nowadays
Because when you look at it, you see everything.
You get to see, yeah, all on a page.
Like Facebook, you got to really scroll and try and find stuff.
But Instagram, it's all laid out.
So it's kind of like just showing off your work.
Like it's like a portfolio, I guess.
Yeah, like interior designers always have like their projects on Instagram and stuff like that.
Well, I'm going to have you guys help me out with Instagram when I am finally accepting projects again.
Because I know it's great for me.
It's just.
Instagram's great, yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I've been in a good position for a long time.
and it kind of adds to the mystique when you're just the i know a guy and you have a reputation
online but nobody ever sees you asking for work and you go to i had a blessing to speak at lehigh
valley elite network as a podcast consultant last week and i don't have to tell any of them
unless they're listening that this is my hobby hobby it's like i train jujitsu more than i
podcast but it's a very outward facing thing so i'm glad i could have you guys on as a guest
james you want to plug your socials so yeah we're at home in tag one on instagram and then my
instagram is at the beekman b-e-a-k-m-a-n group there you go that's the instagram and we're on
linkedin and everything we have websites um you know check out of work you know feel free to call
me for uh whatever opportunity if you're looking for work too feel free to call looking for some
upholsterers right now just had uh somebody somebody go back to italy so we need that we
need an upholsterer if there's anybody out there a good one a good one this is yeah an artist we've
had so many people come in and like it's just you know it couldn't hire them it's just they won't be
able to meet the quotas that we need to get done like one of our guys he'll do like i don't know
we're about to end but he'll do like 30 chairs in one day oh my gosh i don't i don't even understand
how but you know just goes back you know finding good good people is tough but yeah that's us you
know um follow you know cool interact and then you guys can find me at to the designer at all
socials to the designer.com um if we do do this as a bonus episode for i will not lose it's i
will not lose podcast.com. And that'll connect you to any one of the players. We're on YouTube,
Spotify, Google, Apple. Um, it's easier to say what we're not. I don't think I'm on GeoSavon.
So I'm sorry if you're in India, but other than that, um, cool. Anybody have anything else? We're
at an hour six. Sweet, man. Thank you again for listening. Thanks everybody. Peace.